Thursday, July 20, 2006

Contention; How Is This Being A Good Neighbor?

by Wer62 (Ed)

Introduction:

It is a sad state of affairs when people attack others for their religious beliefs. I do not understand people who attack other people for having a differing opinion by derailing message threads instead of taking the opportunities to teach what you believe. Those that read this site and Rick Beaudin's site may be aware of some attacks against Rick and his beliefs. As well as comments I deleted on this site that tried to pit me against Rick by making it appear that Rick made comments about me. Like the scriptures instruct we are not to be quick to anger and this is a prime reason why we should keep cool during these situations.

Rick does not believe as I do and we oppose each other in what we have chosen in our religious beliefs. Rick is a member of a "non denominational / Evangelical" religious group. I of course belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or known to some as the Mormons.

I am writing this blog entry because honesty and communication always wins over those who would stir the contention of men by whatever means. What I mean is claiming to know the original author and their work and threaten that this person is going to sue Rick for copyright law when he has done nothing wrong in his publication. I may not agree with the article but that is the great thing about blogging is I can write a reasoned response and let the readers decide. The Lord did not give us license to "bear false witness when we do not agree with the message" or did I miss that part of the scriptures?

I have broken this blog entry into sections. Contention and Being a Good Neighbor. I will not pass judgment on my fellow man to say what religious denomination this person belongs to but only use scriptural values to show that no matter what group you belong to that a standard has been set that should be followed.



Contention is of the Devil:

Naturally we have some challenges when we work for the Lord in spreading his gospel, not the least of which were to keep our value system up front, to keep contention low, and to stifle foolishness, falseness, selfishness, fatigue, and delusions of grandeur. It is important that we remember why we are blogging. In my case I do it in the defense of my faith the one I believe to be authorized of the Lord and to educate those who will read my words with open-mindedness. I am not perfect, and I am sure Rick will tell you the same thing and he does what he does because he believes that the Lord wants him to witness to his fellow man. We are told to "go forth and teach all nations and to baptize them"[paraphrased]

So how do we tell those who are earnestly seeking the well being of others to save souls and those who just want to stir trouble. Jesus said in 3 Nephi 11:29, 'He that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil.' That tells us something about who's behind an argument. This is backed up by Biblical principal as well.

(Proverbs 18:3-7.)
3 When the wicked cometh, then cometh also contempt, and with ignominy eproach.
4 The words of a man's mouth are as deep waters, and the wellspring of wisdom as a flowing brook.
5 It is not good to accept the person of the wicked, to overthrow the righteous in judgment.
6 A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.
7 A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul.

For those who seek to destroy and are not honest will always be caught by their own words. Honesty and communication will always win the day. Even the Early Church spoke on this subject stating:

You will render no real service to your gods by compelling us to sacrifice. For they can have no desire of offerings from the unwilling, unless they are animated by a spirit of contention, which is a thing altogether undivine.
(Tertullian, Ad Scapula)
The conclusion is that honesty is the best policy because when those that conspire to cause strife between parties may by the people looking bad in the end. If not in this life certainly will have to explain it at the Judgment.

Being a Good Neighbor:

We are taught in the LDS Church that we are to always be the good neighbor. We as LDS are people like everyone else and do not always achieve this goal but we like everyone else learns line by line precept by precept. David McKay stated the following:

"It is generally understood that every member of the Church should be a missionary. He is probably not authorized to go from house to house, but he is authorized, by virtue of his membership, to set a proper example as a good neighbor."

(David O. McKay, CR, October 1958, p. 93.)

So what is a good neighbor? Most people are familiar with the parable of the good Samaritan who felt compassion knelt down by the man's side and bound his wounds, poured in oil and wine and then proceeded to set him on his own beast. Through this parable the Lord taught that anyone who needs our love, compassion, and help becomes our neighbor, whether that person lives near us or not. He also taught that a good neighbor would never leave another stranded by the wayside in this case to continue to be attacked! Rick, consider me your good Samaritan.

I have attempted to call the number supplied, it says it is disconnected. Perhaps the person typed it in wrong as Sharon suggested in her e-mail to me. Either way, I wrote Sharon asking her if she knew this person and she did not seem to know them. I will be happy to participate in a 3 way call to get this issue resolved. Rick, while I do not agree Sharon's article you posted, I agree with your right to post it and to do so without being attacked. I know on my blog as with your blog reasoned responses are welcomed. Rick and I have e-mailed each other over the span of years. We have always been friendly toward one another and when we walk away from the debate we walk away friends and good neighbors. Just for the record, the same goes with Sharon we have always been friendly in our discussions and communications.

Last Item of Business: Sharon provided this to me:

Hi Ed,

Good to hear from you. Hope all is well with your family. As I told Rick, I do not know Steven Boswich, or at least his name is not familiar to me. Nobody (except Rick) has contacted me regarding Rick’s use of the article in question on his blog, and no one (except you and Rick) have contacted me regarding Mr. Boswich’s allegations regarding my identity and alleged future legal action. It was me that posted the comment on Mormonism Reviewed about having given Rick permission to use the “Guess Who?” article without identifying me as the author. Furthermore, given Mr. Boswich’s public statements about me (or that appear to be about me) I thought it might be a good idea for us to speak to one another. I called his office as he suggested in a comment he left on Mormonism Reviewed. I found that the number he gave was invalid. Perhaps he typed it in wrong. At any rate, to the best of my knowledge I have never communicated with Steven Boswich; I have definitely not communicated with Mr. Boswich regarding Rick’s blog.

Thank you for taking the time to check this out,
Ed. I really appreciate your integrity.

Sharon


15 comments:

Anonymous said...

Ed: I want to thank you for your reasonable and caring response. I believe that your posting here has set an example about how people should conduct themselves when discussing topics (especially when it is such a personal topic).

I believe that both you and Rick have a strong desire to share your faith with others. I would like to see a lot more of the positive and respectful discussions. That is healthy. The other stuff is not of God.

rick b said...

Ed, Thank you for contacting Sharon.
I will be honest with you about your topic, You said So what is a good neighbor? Most people are familiar with the parable of the good Samaritan who felt compassion knelt down by the man's side and bound his wounds, poured in oil and wine and then proceeded to set him on his own beast. Through this parable the Lord taught that anyone who needs our love, compassion, and help becomes our neighbor, whether that person lives near us or not. He also taught that a good neighbor would never leave another stranded by the wayside in this case to continue to be attacked! Rick, consider me your good Samaritan.

I dont feel your my Good samaritan, This is why, For starts I had to ask you twice to please contact Sharon to see who was telling the truth, me or steve, That is not to say, you would not have contacted her if I did not ask.

Also You as an LDS member ask and maybe even Expect us Non-LDS or "Anti's" As we are sometimes called, to look into the evidence. So Should I expect anything less from you?

I would expect you to look into the evidence by contacting Sharon, So for this reason I don't feel your a "Good Samaritan". I feel if you did not look into the truth, you would be no different than the so called "Anti's" who dont look into the truth.

I do Agree with you, that we are friends even if we dont agree and we have always gotten along. With that said, How is you serious of books coming along and your not so newborn son? I suspect he's got to be close to 2 years old now, Am I close? Rick b

Wer62 said...

Hi Rick,

Thank you for your comments and your welcome. That stated I have a few things I will now publicly share with you and please do not take this as any kind of attack against you it is only facts of things going on in my life that delayed my "investigation" in this matter.

You stated:
I dont feel your my Good samaritan, This is why, For starts I had to ask you twice to please contact Sharon to see who was telling the truth, me or steve, That is not to say, you would not have contacted her if I did not ask.

Wer62 Replies:
Wow.. Talk about extending an olive branch of peace and having my arm cut off. Whew... Anyways.. Just to let you know I am putting close to 65 to 70 hour per week of work in. That coupled with my Dad in the hospital for the last 6 months and as you stated a 2 year old son soon to be 3 to spend time with as well as my loving wife has left me a bit short on time. Rick have you ever known me to not follow through or at least at a minimum communicate to you that I would get to it later. I believe I had done this when you requested that some comments be deleted from my site. I stated I would get to it on Saturday or the weekend which is coming soon.

That stated: I did follow through and I appologize if it wasn't to your liking in timing. Remember I have a life and responsibilty to my family before I do to my blog or some petty difference of someone trying to start something. There are many out there that would not have responded at all which is why I "feel" I would be less of a friend if I didn't at least ask you to look up references in your scriptures about unrighteous judgement of others. My feeling on your reply is a slap in my face. Of course you are entittled to your opinion.

I of course tell you this as a friend not an enemy because I would not want you to fall into the trap of some apologetic writers who falsely judge people without all the facts. Bottom line, I got to it when I could. Nuff said.

As for looking at the facts, I have looked at your facts and I am guessing you have looked at the facts I have presented. We have come to terms to agree to disagree and I take exception with the fact that you believe I do not do my homework concerning my salvation. Rick I have always considered us like 2 peas in a pod just on different sides and by your comments it appears you are attempting to elevate yourself. Please for your sake watch out for "pride". It is not the best quality in people. You were not always like this so I have to ask, what has made you change? .

As for your expectation I would contact Sharon, I did not have to do so. I could have simply turned a blind eye to the attack against you and not published anything in your defense or worse yet could have joined in the attack against you. (Thus the Good Samaritan Parable) That stated it is not in my nature to be dishonest and therefore as a servent of the Lord I did not and could not do that. You on the other hand "attack" me for not moving to your expectations. All I can say is Wow..

I am glad you consider me a friend, and as such I accept your "feeling" in the matter and will hope you accept mine considering my situation. Trust me when I say, you would not have had to ask at all. I feel I have a good friendship with Sharon as well and got to it when I could.

Concerning my books. I am working slowing to completion of the first book. Again, strained for time makes the work move slow. I am looking forward to completion. It was a bit more work than I first anticipated but has been well worth it in the knowledge gained. Thank you for remembering my Son and that I was working on some writing some books.

Your friend,
Wer62 (Ed)

Wer62 said...

Anonymous @ 1:19PM

Thank you for your comments.

Wer62 said...

Rick,

One last thing, My letter to Sharon went out before you second request. Just so you know...

Wer62 (Ed)

rick b said...

Ed, I do believe you that your request went out to sharon before I posted. Also I did state that you probally would have wrote even if I did not ask. But I still dont feel that doing the right thing or looking int the facts makes you a good samaritan. Acts 17:11 says search the Scriptures.

We are to search not simply believe everything we read or hear, Theirfore it is not said or implyed in Acts 17:11 that by doing such things we are Good Samaritans.

Lastly, this you do not need to share your thought on unless you really want to, I believe this bogus Rickb is steven, and on my blog the guy named Rev who I deleted, and also Depp, and on your blog I believe it is Rob, Plus a few Anonymous replys.

I have my reasons why I believe that, But I won't share because I don't want to clue this person in on to what I am thinking. I have a few friends that read all these different people and feel the same as I do.

So Ed, Because I believe this person is posting under many different names, Expect this devil will be back, even if it is a year from now, to try and cause more trouble. Any messages I feel are from this person will be deleted off my blog without question or reason stated. Rick b

Wer62 said...

Wolfsdinner stated: excuse me, but i wondered, ed, if you wanted to come visit me over at my blog..... but you seem like you have your hands full! lol....

Wer62 Replies: Give me a couple of weeks and I will be happy to review your post[s] in depth and give you some comments.

Meanwhile, I would like to invite you to give me some feedback as well. Of course at your leisure.

Wer62 (Ed)

Wer62 said...

Rick Stated:
Also I did state that you probally would have wrote even if I did not ask.

Wer62 Replies:
Then I have to ask, why did you bring it up at all unless you wanted to make me look bad in some way? I personally have a problem with your "double talk". Double talk as defined at slamming someone for something but making a phrase that gives you an out. Either it wasn't fast enought and I am not a "good Samaritan" or not. Come on Rick, Admit you needed my help and you got it. I did not "pass you by" and do nothing as others have done in the same parable.

Hey we all learn at different paces and this must be an area you need to improve. I will accept you for who you are and move on.

Rick Stated:
We are to search not simply believe everything we read or hear, Theirfore it is not said or implyed in Acts 17:11 that by doing such things we are Good Samaritans.

Wer62 Replies:
It is obvious to most by my reply I had already taken the advice of Acts 17:11 by searching the scriptures. In the blog posting I covered this and while not using your reference or putting it in that way I mentioned not being quick to anger and use this as a teaching opportunity:

Let us look at the Good Samaritan Parable:

29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

So Rick, what is title of this blog posting. "Contention; How Is This Being A Good Neighbor?" It is apparent I have already searched the scriptures and come to my conclusion. Therefore your rebuke of me by Acts 17:11 is unwarrented.

Rick, Does the title of my article speak of being a good neighbor to those that are attacked by those who want to cause contention?

[Y/N]

Be Honest...



30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and awounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

Rick, wasn't your character attacked? And while the wounds are not physical but against how people percieve you as a person. Understand like the Samaritan it is not in my best interest to correct those perceptions of those who oppose my religious views so harshly, yet as a good Christian I did so because of the story of the "Good Samaritan".

Understanding that the Samaritans were outsiders to most of the Jewish community. He [The Samaritan] was a Good Neighbor dispite the differences.

Rick Did I help you dispite our religious differences?

[Y/N]

Be honest...


31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

Were there others that could have helped you? If so did they? There are any number of people that could have written Sharon and did not. This is not just LDS people but other loving Christian denominations who read your blog could have also attempted to confirm you were being attacked unjustly. Where were they Rick? Do you think that the person left for dead in the parable probably asked each person passing by at least twice? The number of times asked means nothing, the fact it was done does...

Rick Did I write Sharon and Help Clear your attack.

[Y/N]

Be Honest...


32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

[Read comments from verse 31]

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

Did I show compassion for you Rick and do what it took to confirm your side/the truth?

[Y/N]

Be honest.


34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

Did I help you take care of this situation doing all that was neccessary to resolve the issue?

[Y/N]

Be honest...


35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

No Monitary value was required yet I did attempt to make a long distance phone call which I would have gladly paid.

Rick, isn't this one of the principals of the "Good Samaritan"?

[Y/N]

Be honest...


36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

So Rick, Was I the Good Neighbor?

[Y/N]

Please be honest.


Final Notes: I was not looking for acknowlegement of the good deed, I did it as I explained in my blog for the sake of honesty. It is unfortunate I am forced to defend my position to the very person I helped.

Wer62 (Ed)

Wer62 said...

Anon Asked:
Please explain how mercy was shown in this whole circumstance.

Wer62 Responds:
First lets look at Ricks position in two parts.

Part 1: Rick was being called to the carpet for plagerizing Sharon's article.

Part 2. Someone was coming to this blog to attempt to get me to attack Rick also.

I agree that Part 2 is NOT any kind of a "good Samaritan" type of issue. That stated however the attack that Rick "steals" material to post is an attack on his character. I summed this up in my comments already but I will do it again:

"As for your expectation I would contact Sharon, I did not have to do so. I could have simply turned a blind eye to the attack against you and not published anything in your defense or worse yet could have joined in the attack against you. (Thus the Good Samaritan Parable) That stated it is not in my nature to be dishonest and therefore as a servent of the Lord)"

It was my choice to help or not. If I had not helped Rick would still be attacked today. I would call this Mercy as defined by your definition 1 - 1. Compassionate treatment, especially of those under one's power - Simply put because it was my choice Rick was "under my power" since I could dispatch the issue with no way for the attacker to come back.

Thanks for Asking
Wer62

Spidey4Christ said...

I think that despite your stating the truth, Ed, Rick will still be attacked, and I don't believe that Rick was under your power. Hence, he was not at your mercy.

Wer62 said...

Roaming Gnome, you are correct in the fact that Rick will be attacked again. In my opinion because of his abusive nature. That stated he will not be attacked again with any type of legitimacy concerning the plagerizing of Sharon's work. In this matter the case is closed because I have also (as a counter to Rick and his position) stepped in and confirmed his position. In this sigular case I am "the good Samaritan"

I am sorry you do not see how people can have their character assassinated on the Internet Super-highway. The road is the internet, the attack was against Rick in character. The piont here is it seems that Rick and yourself only are looking at the facts in a "physical" form and not in the context of the environment we are in which is the Internet.

The fact you cannot apply the Good Samaritan parable clearly states this fact.

Furthermore: Rick fired the first shot against me after helping him in basis attacking my character.

Lets look at some of his statements: Thank you - but I had to ask twice (which implies that it is to slow for his taste.)

Thank you, but it is in your best interest to answer to these charges (which it makes no difference to me if he is getting attacked for copying someone elses work or not.)

Thank you, but I do not know where you heart is. (come on, to lump me in with athiests. All I can say is Wow.. ) and then have the nerve to call me a friend. Does Rick do these things to you?

After examining the evidence one has to wonder if Rick is a man of God or not.

Wow..

Wer62

Anonymous said...

Ed, you replied to me saying you had control of Rick. I don't agree. I believe that God could have used someone else to clear his name. The good samaritan helped a wounded man with no other means of help. Though you were a good person to be chosen to help, and I applaud you for stepping up, there were alternatives. God is in control. There was no reason for you to hesitate in helping since you would expect the same from him...

Pro 3:27 says: "Withhold not good from them to whom it is due, when it is in the power of thine hand to do [it]."

Therefore, you should have done it without all of the fanfare, expecting to be honored for doing what is right.

Anonymous said...

ED,
This is Rick's wife. I do not appreciate you saying my husband is abusive. He is telling the truth bluntly. An abusive person would be always be calling people names, threatening, etc. I grew up in an abusive home so I know the difference. My husband has even deleted his own comments when he acted in the flesh and has apologized publicly. Please stop slandering him. You say you were acting to protect his character, then you try to hurt him. Please explain yourself.
Thank you, Rick's wife

Wer62 said...

Anon @ 7:37 Stated:
Ed, you replied to me saying you had control of Rick.
... Therefore, you should have done it without all of the fanfare, expecting to be honored for doing what is right.

Wer62 Replies:
Anon, honestly, I did it without all the "fanfare". It wasn't until rick attacked my character in telling me I did not act fast enough had to ask multiple time and was only doing this in my best interest that I took exception. In fact if you look at one of Rick's comments he says I should have dropped this and I had a choice to defend myself. Oh my Gosh is he kidding. I go out of my way to help and I get critized by him. He could have been less "abusive" in his comments and just said "thank you". Showing kindness despite our religious differences. In my opinion if a "born again" had made the same blog entry not a word would have been said.

As for having control of the "situation" with my position as an LDS member it gives Rick a better position to prove his point. Therefore I did control the situation and Rick would still be battling the plagerizm battle. Why do you think Rick made a big deal about my blog entry and not others?

I made a choice to help and was chastized for it. And yes Rick's Wife. That is a form of Abuse!

Wer62

Anonymous said...

good god rick n ricks wife. he did NOT have to help rick. but he DID GET OVER IT !!!!!!! stop being UN-GRATEFUL and start to apreciate his generosity.