Adam, God and the StrawMan

by Wer62

Writers past current have practiced the art of creating the "straw man's argument". This type of argument is done in hopes that the reciepiant of the message will be confused and unable to respond or in extreme cases even come over to that persons way of thinking based on a false premise.

The straw man argument seems to be mandatory in attacks against the LDS Church. The Adam God Doctrine is one such example. According to this doctrine detrators of the LDS faith will tell you that Latter Day Saints worship Adam as God. If it were not for these detractors of the LDS faith there would be hardly anyone that would know of this doctrine. It is not taught in our scriptures or our lesson manuals. There is nobody that I know who has ever heard this taught and there is nobody that even knows somebody who even "thinks" this may have been taught or even believes it within the LDS membership.

Propping up the straw man is usually done by quoting some Mormon leader as supporting or making a supportive statement concerning a piece of doctrine. Quoting someone living of course is totally out of the question and the longer they have been dead the better off the detrators are concerning proving their point. If we use the Bible in this same fashion we can come up to some pretty funny conclusions. In Genesis we are told that Jacob made an agreement with Laban that his wages for tending Laban's herds would be the speckled and spotted catle, sheep and goats. Jacob then induced the herds to give birth to speckeled and spotted offspring by having them look at a striped stick when they concieved. [See Genesis 30:31-40]

Since the Jewish community believes in the Book of Genesis it stands to reason that they believe that what ever impresses the mind of the female at the time of conception will have a corresponding influence on the mind or body of the fetus. Since most Jews do not know they believe this it is up to us to get the word out. The advantage of not having Jacob with us is obvious.

When it comes to Christians and the New Testament, if Paul said something then they are duty bound to believe and follow it. If you take this preface then women are to keep silent in church [see 1 Corinthians 14:34], are not allowed to teach [see 1 Corinthians 11:15] and should have long hair. [see 1 Corinthians 11:15]

While these illustrations are ridiculous it is no more ridiculous than telling the LDS that they believe Adam is God. If an honest person is looking into what Christ taught would that person go to the Pharisees or Saducees? For more information please read What is Considered LDS Doctrine

Contention; How Is This Being A Good Neighbor - Teaching Opportunity?

I believe in taking opportunities to teach where possible. Rick, the person I helped when attacked, does not believe I was an example of a good Samaritan based on Acts 17:11. Acts 17:11 merely states that we should search the scriptures daily. I did this to Rick's plight and came up with the Good Samaritan parable. While Rick did not reason beyond Acts 17:11 I would like to take this opportunity to teach Rick and others by applying Luke 10:29-36 [The Good Samaritan] to the situation Rick had and I assisted.


Let us look at the Good Samaritan Parable:

29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

So Rick, what is title of this blog posting. "Contention; How Is This Being A Good Neighbor?" It is apparent I have already searched the scriptures and come to my conclusion. Therefore your rebuke of me by Acts 17:11 is unwarrented.

Rick, Does the title of my article speak of being a good neighbor to those that are attacked by those who want to cause contention?

[Y/N]

Be Honest...

30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and awounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

Rick, wasn't your character attacked? And while the wounds are not physical but against how people percieve you as a person. Understand like the Samaritan it is not in my best interest to correct those perceptions of those who oppose my religious views so harshly, yet as a good Christian I did so because of the story of the "Good Samaritan".

Understanding that the Samaritans were outsiders to most of the Jewish community. He [The Samaritan] was a Good Neighbor dispite the differences.

Rick Did I help you dispite our religious differences?

[Y/N]
Be honest...

31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

Were there others that could have helped you? If so did they? There are any number of people that could have written Sharon and did not. This is not just LDS people but other loving Christian denominations who read your blog could have also attempted to confirm you were being attacked unjustly. Where were they Rick? Do you think that the person left for dead in the parable probably asked each person passing by at least twice? The number of times asked means nothing, the fact it was done does...

Rick Did I write Sharon and Help Clear your attack.

[Y/N]
Be Honest...

32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

[Read comments from verse 31]

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

Did I show compassion for you Rick and do what it took to confirm your side/the truth?

[Y/N]
Be honest.

34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

Did I help you take care of this situation doing all that was neccessary to resolve the issue?

[Y/N]
Be honest...

35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

No Monitary value was required yet I did attempt to make a long distance phone call which I would have gladly paid.

Rick, isn't this one of the principals of the "Good Samaritan"?

[Y/N]
Be honest... >

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

So Rick, Was I the Good Neighbor?

[Y/N]
Please be honest.

Final Notes: I was not looking for acknowlegement of the good deed, I did it as I explained in my blog for the sake of honesty. It is unfortunate I am forced to defend my position to the very person I helped.


Wer62 (Ed)

Contention; How Is This Being A Good Neighbor?

by Wer62 (Ed)

Introduction:

It is a sad state of affairs when people attack others for their religious beliefs. I do not understand people who attack other people for having a differing opinion by derailing message threads instead of taking the opportunities to teach what you believe. Those that read this site and Rick Beaudin's site may be aware of some attacks against Rick and his beliefs. As well as comments I deleted on this site that tried to pit me against Rick by making it appear that Rick made comments about me. Like the scriptures instruct we are not to be quick to anger and this is a prime reason why we should keep cool during these situations.

Rick does not believe as I do and we oppose each other in what we have chosen in our religious beliefs. Rick is a member of a "non denominational / Evangelical" religious group. I of course belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or known to some as the Mormons.

I am writing this blog entry because honesty and communication always wins over those who would stir the contention of men by whatever means. What I mean is claiming to know the original author and their work and threaten that this person is going to sue Rick for copyright law when he has done nothing wrong in his publication. I may not agree with the article but that is the great thing about blogging is I can write a reasoned response and let the readers decide. The Lord did not give us license to "bear false witness when we do not agree with the message" or did I miss that part of the scriptures?

I have broken this blog entry into sections. Contention and Being a Good Neighbor. I will not pass judgment on my fellow man to say what religious denomination this person belongs to but only use scriptural values to show that no matter what group you belong to that a standard has been set that should be followed.

Contention is of the Devil:

Naturally we have some challenges when we work for the Lord in spreading his gospel, not the least of which were to keep our value system up front, to keep contention low, and to stifle foolishness, falseness, selfishness, fatigue, and delusions of grandeur. It is important that we remember why we are blogging. In my case I do it in the defense of my faith the one I believe to be authorized of the Lord and to educate those who will read my words with open-mindedness. I am not perfect, and I am sure Rick will tell you the same thing and he does what he does because he believes that the Lord wants him to witness to his fellow man. We are told to "go forth and teach all nations and to baptize them"[paraphrased]

So how do we tell those who are earnestly seeking the well being of others to save souls and those who just want to stir trouble. Jesus said in 3 Nephi 11:29, 'He that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil.' That tells us something about who's behind an argument. This is backed up by Biblical principal as well.

(Proverbs 18:3-7.)
3 When the wicked cometh, then cometh also contempt, and with ignominy eproach.
4 The words of a man's mouth are as deep waters, and the wellspring of wisdom as a flowing brook.
5 It is not good to accept the person of the wicked, to overthrow the righteous in judgment.
6 A fool's lips enter into contention, and his mouth calleth for strokes.
7 A fool's mouth is his destruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul.

For those who seek to destroy and are not honest will always be caught by their own words. Honesty and communication will always win the day. Even the Early Church spoke on this subject stating:

You will render no real service to your gods by compelling us to sacrifice. For they can have no desire of offerings from the unwilling, unless they are animated by a spirit of contention, which is a thing altogether undivine.
(Tertullian, Ad Scapula)

The conclusion is that honesty is the best policy because when those that conspire to cause strife between parties may by the people looking bad in the end. If not in this life certainly will have to explain it at the Judgment.

Being a Good Neighbor:

We are taught in the LDS Church that we are to always be the good neighbor. We as LDS are people like everyone else and do not always achieve this goal but we like everyone else learns line by line precept by precept. David McKay stated the following:

"It is generally understood that every member of the Church should be a missionary. He is probably not authorized to go from house to house, but he is authorized, by virtue of his membership, to set a proper example as a good neighbor."

(David O. McKay, CR, October 1958, p. 93.)

So what is a good neighbor? Most people are familiar with the parable of the good Samaritan who felt compassion knelt down by the man's side and bound his wounds, poured in oil and wine and then proceeded to set him on his own beast. Through this parable the Lord taught that anyone who needs our love, compassion, and help becomes our neighbor, whether that person lives near us or not. He also taught that a good neighbor would never leave another stranded by the wayside in this case to continue to be attacked! Rick, consider me your good Samaritan.

I have attempted to call the number supplied, it says it is disconnected. Perhaps the person typed it in wrong as Sharon suggested in her e-mail to me. Either way, I wrote Sharon asking her if she knew this person and she did not seem to know them. I will be happy to participate in a 3 way call to get this issue resolved. Rick, while I do not agree Sharon's article you posted, I agree with your right to post it and to do so without being attacked. I know on my blog as with your blog reasoned responses are welcomed. Rick and I have e-mailed each other over the span of years. We have always been friendly toward one another and when we walk away from the debate we walk away friends and good neighbors. Just for the record, the same goes with Sharon we have always been friendly in our discussions and communications.

Last Item of Business: Sharon provided this to me:

Hi Ed,

Good to hear from you. Hope all is well with your family. As I told Rick, I do not know Steven Boswich, or at least his name is not familiar to me. Nobody (except Rick) has contacted me regarding Rick’s use of the article in question on his blog, and no one (except you and Rick) have contacted me regarding Mr. Boswich’s allegations regarding my identity and alleged future legal action. It was me that posted the comment on Mormonism Reviewed about having given Rick permission to use the “Guess Who?” article without identifying me as the author. Furthermore, given Mr. Boswich’s public statements about me (or that appear to be about me) I thought it might be a good idea for us to speak to one another. I called his office as he suggested in a comment he left on Mormonism Reviewed. I found that the number he gave was invalid. Perhaps he typed it in wrong. At any rate, to the best of my knowledge I have never communicated with Steven Boswich; I have definitely not communicated with Mr. Boswich regarding Rick’s blog.

Thank you for taking the time to check this out,
Ed. I really appreciate your integrity.

Sharon

Do the LDS Conspire to Change History?

The problem with the conspiracy theories concerning the LDS Church is that the detractors of the LDS faith do not accept history unless it fits their preconceptions. An honest reading the Bible, the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants as well as LDS Church history reveals there was no effort to cover up anything. For example, if I had been writing the Bible I might have attempted to cover up the following;

• The Lies of Abraham
• The Anger Fits of Moses
• The Sins of David
• Paul and Barnabas not being able to get along and having to part ways

I might have had a “public relations office” cover up all of these things. The fact remains that the Bible uses such events as teaching opportunities as well as to teach us that even those who have authority are not perfect. So it is with LDS Church history and scripture.

have studied the Early 1st and 2nd century Church as well as LDS Church history for the last 10 years and I am amazed at what is recorded about some of the key leaders that we regard so highly in history of both the ancient church and the modern restored church. These histories tell stories of authorized leaders and their short comings, sins, and failures. It is laid right out there in a most honest way. Just as it was with the ancient Church leaders so it is with the Modern Church leadership. They learn as we do line by line precept by precept. [1]

Often times what is drawn from Church leaders of the past is, like the matter of blood atonement, misquoted, misrepresented, or taken out of context. Not everything that was ever spoken or written by the Prophets and Apostles is part of what we teach today. Can a prophet have a personal opinion? Did Prophets and Apostles past and current make mistakes? I think that is established in my earlier comments on Moses, Abraham, Paul and Barnabas as well as others like Jonah. We as LDS do not believe a prophet or apostle is perfect. We love and sustain them as authorized by the Lord. Just as Paul made mistakes we admire his boldness and dedication and treasure his epistles. James pointed out that Elijah "was a man subject to like passions as we are" [James 5:17]. Joseph Smith taught "a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such.[2] On one occasion the prophet Joseph Smith declared: "I told them I was but a man, and they must not expect me to be perfect; if they expected perfection from me, I should expect it from them; but if they would bear with my infirmities and the infirmities of the brethren, I would likewise bear with their infirmities" [3] Lorenzo Snow commented; if he does not know everything I know... I saw the... imperfections in [Joseph Smith]... I thanked God that He would put upon him... for I knew that I myself had weakness, and I thought there was a chance for me. [4]

The detractors of the LDS faith somehow think that history is a plot or conspiracy to hide and manipulate truth. Truth has a way of emerging on top especially in light of such opposition. After all just because there is a lot of opposition does not make the LDS Church any less true especially in light of all the materials that the LDS church makes available. What these same detractors do not realize is that the Sadducee’s and Pharisee’s attempted to squash or twist the eternal truth of Jesus Christ in Christ’s day and these same type of detractors are doing the same thing now calling on the traditions of men instead of an authorized priesthood. True messengers of God are builders—not destroyers. We send our missionaries into the world to teach and to assist people in receiving truth line upon line until the fullness of the gospel is received. [5]

My opinion is that detractors of the LDS faith seem to have an over active imagination claiming some history is doctrine of the LDS church that simply isn't so and twisting good doctrine into unrecognizable forms. One has to wonder why so much effort is put into attempting to discredit the LDS faith.

Wer62

__________________________________________________
Footnotes:
[1] Isa 28:10, 13, 17
[2] Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg 278
[3] Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg 268
[4] Lorenzo Snow, as cited in Maxwell, Conference Report October 1984, 10
[5] Elder Carlos E. Asay, as cited in Sunday Afternoon session October 4, 1981

The LDS Worship Joesph Smith - Oh Really?

by Wer62

It has been posed by detrators of the LDS faith that the LDS membership worships Joesph Smith. One such detractor asked made the following statement and asked a question:

The year 2005 is the 200th anniversary of the LDS Prophet Joseph Smith's birth. Latter-day Saints are using this anniversary year to honor their Prophet in special ways; but, according to the Chicago Tribune, this admiration is being "downplayed for fear that outsiders would mistake their reverence for the prophet as if they were worshipping him as a God."

In practical terms, how does LDS reverence for the Prophet Joseph Smith differ from LDS worship of Jesus Christ?

The article stated it plainly. We reverence Joseph Smith and we worship Jesus Christ. The difference is in the terminology and as such we need to define the terms of reverence and worship: [1]

rev-er-ence ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rvr-ns) n.
1. A feeling of profound awe and respect and often love; veneration. See Synonyms at honor.

2. Reverence Used as a form of address for certain members of the Christian clergy: Your Reverence

wor-ship ( P ) Pronunciation Key (wurshp)n.
1. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.

2. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.

We honor Joseph Smith and his accomplishments no different that those who reverence Moses in his day, but we worship Jesus Christ as our deity. Immense difference!

We do not pray to Joesph Smith to save us, we do not expect Joesph Smith to save us. We pray through Jesus Christ and believe He is our mediator with the Father. We are taught to close our prayers "in the name of Jesus Christ". Does this sound like a religion that prays to Joesph Smith?

We admire all the Joseph Smith accomplished. He under the direction of Christ restored Christ's words, orginized a Church, built entire cities that were so nice they were taken away sometimes by threats of exterminiation orders by those who were jelious of those accomplishments. It is true that Joseph Smith accomplished a lot in his lifetime, more than most. That stated we do not pray to him and therefore by defintion do not "worship" him.

___________________________________________________________

Footnotes:

[1] Meriam Websters Online Dictionary